Why Do Catholics Pray to Saints? (And No, It's Not Idol Worship)

1
00:00:00,302 --> 00:00:05,462
A few months back, my wife asked me a simple
question. Why do Catholics pray to saints?

2
00:00:06,322 --> 00:00:11,942
Now, I started answering and about two sentences
in, I realized I didn't actually have a good

3
00:00:11,942 --> 00:00:18,582
clear answer ready. Not a bad one, just not
one I could say plainly, the way you'd want

4
00:00:18,582 --> 00:00:24,762
to explain something you actually believe. That
question is the whole reason this show exists.

5
00:00:24,762 --> 00:00:31,498
And I realized that for multiple private messages,
I've never once sat down and just answered

6
00:00:31,498 --> 00:00:39,890
it all the way through. So that's what today
is.

7
00:00:47,950 --> 00:00:55,410
My name is John O'Connor and this is Everyday
Saints. This is a special episode. So no Saints

8
00:00:55,410 --> 00:01:02,610
story today. No dramatic escape, no martyrdom,
none of that. Just me on the porch trying

9
00:01:02,610 --> 00:01:07,970
to answer a question a lot of people have asked
me and honestly, one I think a lot of Catholics

10
00:01:07,970 --> 00:01:14,130
themselves have never fully worked through either.
Before I get into it, I want to say something

11
00:01:14,130 --> 00:01:20,590
plainly right up front. I am not trying to talk
anyone into becoming a Catholic today. If you

12
00:01:20,590 --> 00:01:26,510
walk away from this episode desiring to be Catholic,
great. If you walk away still not desiring

13
00:01:26,510 --> 00:01:32,329
to be Catholic, but you believe in Christ and
you believe in God, I'm thoroughly happy either

14
00:01:32,329 --> 00:01:38,750
way. That's what actually matters to me. This
episode isn't a sales pitch for Catholicism.

15
00:01:38,910 --> 00:01:47,038
It's just me trying to explain something honestly,
the same way I'd explain it to a friend. Let's

16
00:01:47,038 --> 00:01:51,938
start with the word itself, because I think
it trips people up more than anything else.

17
00:01:52,658 --> 00:01:59,218
When you hear pray to a saint, your brain probably
jumps straight to worship. Like you are treating

18
00:01:59,218 --> 00:02:04,918
the saint the same way you treat God. And if
that was actually what was happening, the concern

19
00:02:04,918 --> 00:02:11,018
would be completely fair. And that would be
a real problem. But that's not what the word

20
00:02:11,018 --> 00:02:19,110
pray originally meant. Centuries ago, pray
just meant to ask. You will still catch traces

21
00:02:19,110 --> 00:02:27,390
of it in old writing. Someone saying, I pray
thee just meant I'm asking you. So when a Catholic

22
00:02:27,390 --> 00:02:33,410
says they are praying to a saint, what they
mean is I'm asking this person to pray for

23
00:02:33,410 --> 00:02:40,750
me, not asking them to grant the request themselves,
asking them to bring it to God the same way

24
00:02:40,750 --> 00:02:47,558
you'd ask a friend, hey, can you pray for me
this week? That's the whole starting point.

25
00:02:47,718 --> 00:02:55,258
It's a request for help, not a redirect of worship.
Here's the actual belief underneath all of

26
00:02:55,258 --> 00:03:02,658
this, and it's simpler than it sounds. Catholics
believe that when someone dies in faith, they

27
00:03:02,658 --> 00:03:08,418
just don't disappear from the picture. They
are still part of the same family of believers,

28
00:03:08,478 --> 00:03:16,382
what the church calls the communion of saints.
Now, that's just a fancy way of saying Everyone

29
00:03:16,382 --> 00:03:24,442
who believes, whether they are alive right now
or already with God, is still one connected

30
00:03:24,442 --> 00:03:31,482
group, not separate, not cut off from each other.
And here's the part that actually matters for

31
00:03:31,482 --> 00:03:40,022
our question. The church teaches that the people
already with God are more alive, not less.

32
00:03:40,282 --> 00:03:49,362
Closer to Him, not further away. So, If you'd
ask a living friend to pray for you without

33
00:03:49,362 --> 00:03:56,922
a second thought, asking someone who's already
with God is not some bizarre leap. If anything,

34
00:03:56,922 --> 00:04:04,782
Catholics would say it makes more sense, not
less. Think about it this way. You have probably

35
00:04:04,782 --> 00:04:12,122
heard someone say about a person they lost,
she's still watching over us, or he's still

36
00:04:12,122 --> 00:04:18,177
with us in spirit. Almost everyone Catholic
or not has said some version of that about

37
00:04:18,177 --> 00:04:25,218
somebody they loved. Catholic teaching on saints
is really just the same instinct, taken seriously

38
00:04:25,218 --> 00:04:31,558
and thought all the way through. If that person
really is with God now, then asking for their

39
00:04:31,558 --> 00:04:39,338
prayers isn't strange. It's just continuing
a relationship that didn't actually end. I'll

40
00:04:39,338 --> 00:04:44,094
give you a couple of the actual Bible verses
Catholics point to here. since I know some

41
00:04:44,094 --> 00:04:50,354
of you are wondering if any of this is actually
in scripture or if it's just tradition we made

42
00:04:50,354 --> 00:04:58,914
up along the way. In the gospel of Luke, Jesus
says, God is not God of the dead, but of the

43
00:04:58,914 --> 00:05:06,814
living, meaning the people who have died in
faith are described as alive, not gone. And

44
00:05:06,814 --> 00:05:12,574
then in the book of Hebrews, there's a line
about being surrounded by a great cloud of

45
00:05:12,574 --> 00:05:19,074
witnesses. A lot of Christians, not just Catholics,
read that as the faithful who have gone before

46
00:05:19,074 --> 00:05:26,254
us, still somehow present, still cheering us
on. I'm not going to pretend those verses settled

47
00:05:26,254 --> 00:05:32,954
the whole argument on their own. Smart, faithful
people read them differently, but it's not

48
00:05:32,954 --> 00:05:37,838
nothing, and it's not just something the Church
invented with no scripture behind it at all.

49
00:05:39,438 --> 00:05:44,878
Here's a question I've gotten a lot, and it's
a fair one. If God is all-powerful, why bother

50
00:05:44,878 --> 00:05:51,898
asking a specific saint at all? Why not just
go straight to God? Think about how you already

51
00:05:51,898 --> 00:05:57,318
act with people who are still alive. If you
are going through something hard, you don't

52
00:05:57,318 --> 00:06:03,158
only pray by yourself. You call a friend and
ask them to pray for you too. And you probably

53
00:06:03,158 --> 00:06:09,086
don't just call anybody. You call the friend
who actually gets it. Somebody who's been through

54
00:06:09,086 --> 00:06:15,986
the same thing or who you know cares in a specific
way about that specific problem. That friend

55
00:06:15,986 --> 00:06:21,866
praying for you doesn't add power God doesn't
already have. God can hear you fine on your

56
00:06:21,866 --> 00:06:28,926
own. But there is something real about having
somebody else stand there with you. Especially

57
00:06:28,926 --> 00:06:36,186
somebody who understands exactly what you are
asking for. Here's how I'd put it. Say you're

58
00:06:36,186 --> 00:06:41,926
struggling financially and you're choosing between
praying alone or asking Mother Teresa, a woman

59
00:06:41,926 --> 00:06:47,306
who spent her whole life kneeling next to the
poorest people on earth, to pray for you too.

60
00:06:48,066 --> 00:06:54,626
Either way, God is the one who answers. Nothing
changes there. But doesn't it feel different

61
00:06:54,626 --> 00:07:00,906
having somebody who actually understands exactly
what that struggle is like standing there praying

62
00:07:00,906 --> 00:07:08,498
right alongside you? That's the whole idea behind
asking a specific saint instead of just anybody.

63
00:07:09,198 --> 00:07:17,218
It's not about extra power. It's about who actually
gets it. This is also where the whole idea

64
00:07:17,218 --> 00:07:23,978
of a patron saint comes from. You have probably
heard that phrase almost two dozen times alone

65
00:07:23,978 --> 00:07:30,858
in my episodes, even if you have never thought
about it much. It's not some official assignment

66
00:07:30,858 --> 00:07:37,622
like, A saint gets a handed a department to
manage. It usually comes from something specific

67
00:07:37,622 --> 00:07:44,522
in that saint's actual life. A saint who spent
years caring for the sick becomes someone people

68
00:07:44,522 --> 00:07:50,662
turn to for healing. A soldier who died for
his faith becomes someone soldiers turn to

69
00:07:50,662 --> 00:07:55,922
for courage. It's the same logic as calling
your friend who's been through a divorce when

70
00:07:55,922 --> 00:08:00,408
you're going through one yourself, instead of
calling a friend who's never been married.

71
00:08:01,230 --> 00:08:06,650
Not because one friend is more powerful than
the other, because one of them actually knows

72
00:08:06,650 --> 00:08:13,030
what you are carrying. Now, let's deal with
the actual concern directly, because I don't

73
00:08:13,030 --> 00:08:18,810
want to dance around it. Some people look at
the statues of saints or candles or people

74
00:08:18,810 --> 00:08:25,250
kneeling and saying a specific saint's name,
and they see worship. They think that looks

75
00:08:25,250 --> 00:08:31,120
exactly like what the Bible warns against. Here's
the distinction the church actually makes,

76
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:36,370
and it's not something made up to dodge the
question. This is old, worked out teaching.

77
00:08:37,390 --> 00:08:44,030
There's a real difference between honoring somebody
and worshiping them. You honor a war hero.

78
00:08:44,550 --> 00:08:51,130
You honor your grandparents. You don't worship
them. Worship means treating something as God,

79
00:08:51,370 --> 00:08:58,668
as the source of everything, deserving of your
whole life. Honor just means respect, admiration.

80
00:08:58,766 --> 00:09:06,646
looking up to somebody. Catholic teaching says
saints get honor, never worship. A statue of

81
00:09:06,646 --> 00:09:12,746
a saint works basically the same way a photo
of somebody you love works. It's a reminder.

82
00:09:12,986 --> 00:09:18,726
You don't think the photo itself has some magical
power. It just helps you picture the person

83
00:09:18,726 --> 00:09:25,046
and that helps you talk to them the same way
it does with anyone. There's actually an old

84
00:09:25,046 --> 00:09:30,814
fancy set of words for this exact distinction.
if you ever run into it. The worship owed

85
00:09:30,814 --> 00:09:37,114
to God alone is sometimes called Latria, and
the honor given to saints is called Dulia.

86
00:09:37,514 --> 00:09:43,314
You don't need to remember those words. I only
mention them so you know this isn't a modern

87
00:09:43,314 --> 00:09:49,594
workaround. The church drew this exact line
a very long time ago, and it's never moved.

88
00:09:50,494 --> 00:09:55,674
I know some of you are thinking about a specific
Bible passage right now, and I want to address

89
00:09:55,674 --> 00:10:00,838
it directly instead of dancing around it. The
Ten Commandments include a command against

90
00:10:00,838 --> 00:10:06,818
making graven images, carved statues, and
bowing down to them. That's the actual verse

91
00:10:06,818 --> 00:10:13,258
behind the idol worship accusation, and it's
a fair verse to bring up. Here's the Catholic

92
00:10:13,258 --> 00:10:20,878
answer to that. That commandment is about worshiping
an image as if it were God itself, or as if

93
00:10:20,878 --> 00:10:26,698
the object had power on its own. Nobody kneeling
in front of a statue of a saint believes the

94
00:10:26,698 --> 00:10:32,358
statue itself can do anything. It's a visual
reminder, the same as a photograph on your

95
00:10:32,358 --> 00:10:39,398
wall or a flag you salute. You are not worshipping
the fabric. You are honoring what it represents.

96
00:10:39,898 --> 00:10:46,278
The statue isn't the point. It's a reminder
of a real person. The same way a photo of your

97
00:10:46,278 --> 00:10:53,538
grandfather is a reminder of him, not an object
with power of its own. Now, this one comes

98
00:10:53,538 --> 00:10:57,964
up constantly, and I think it's actually one
of the most human versions of this whole question.

99
00:10:59,054 --> 00:11:04,214
Can you ask somebody who has never officially
declared a saint, like your own grandfather,

100
00:11:04,654 --> 00:11:12,194
for his prayers if you believe he's with God?
The honest answer is yes, with one small detail

101
00:11:12,194 --> 00:11:17,754
worth knowing. There's a difference between
what you do privately on your own and what

102
00:11:17,754 --> 00:11:24,914
happens out loud in an official church service.
Publicly, en masse, the church only invokes

103
00:11:24,914 --> 00:11:30,406
people it's officially certain are in heaven.
That's what it means for someone to be canonized,

104
00:11:30,406 --> 00:11:38,246
to be declared a saint. That's the church putting
its full certain stamp on it. But privately,

105
00:11:38,606 --> 00:11:45,266
on your own, at home, in your own heart, Catholics
have always asked for the prayers of people

106
00:11:45,266 --> 00:11:52,506
they simply believe are with God, even without
any official declaration. That goes all the

107
00:11:52,506 --> 00:11:57,130
way back to the earliest Christians who prayed
for the help of the people They'd personally

108
00:11:57,130 --> 00:12:04,910
known and lost long before anything like an
official process even existed. So yes, if you

109
00:12:04,910 --> 00:12:11,050
believe your grandfather is with God, you can
absolutely ask him to pray for you. It's the

110
00:12:11,050 --> 00:12:17,030
exact same kind of a request you'd make of any
canonized saint. The only difference is the

111
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:22,890
church hasn't officially confirmed his address,
so to speak. You were trusting your own hope

112
00:12:22,890 --> 00:12:29,618
and faith on that one. instead of resting on
an official church declaration. I actually

113
00:12:29,618 --> 00:12:34,978
think this is one of the most comforting parts
of the whole thing once you sit with it. You

114
00:12:34,978 --> 00:12:39,998
don't need a formal process to keep talking
to the people you have lost. You don't need

115
00:12:39,998 --> 00:12:45,838
permission from anybody to believe your grandfather
still cares about you, still prays for you,

116
00:12:45,898 --> 00:12:52,586
still shows up for you in whatever way somebody
with God is able to show up. The Church's official

117
00:12:52,586 --> 00:12:58,366
list of saints isn't a wall keeping everyone
else out. It's just the small group the Church

118
00:12:58,366 --> 00:13:05,586
has looked at very closely to say with full
confidence, yes, we are certain about this

119
00:13:05,586 --> 00:13:12,366
one. Everybody else you love and believe is
with God is still fair game. Nobody's stopping

120
00:13:12,366 --> 00:13:18,006
you from asking. I want to say something here
that I think matters, and it's very much in

121
00:13:18,006 --> 00:13:23,922
the spirit of what this whole show tries to
do. separating what's actually true from what

122
00:13:23,922 --> 00:13:30,382
just sounds convincing. This is real disagreement
between Catholics and a lot of our Protestant

123
00:13:30,382 --> 00:13:36,022
brothers and sisters. It's not just a misunderstanding
that clears up the second somebody explains

124
00:13:36,022 --> 00:13:42,022
it well enough. Most Protestants who reject
praying to saints do it because of a specific

125
00:13:42,022 --> 00:13:49,182
verse. In Paul's first letter to Timothy, it
says there is one mediator between God and

126
00:13:49,182 --> 00:13:56,826
mankind, the man Christ Jesus. The mediator
basically means go between, somebody standing

127
00:13:56,826 --> 00:14:02,806
in the middle connecting two sides. A lot of
Christians read that verse and conclude Christ

128
00:14:02,806 --> 00:14:08,846
is the only go between we are allowed to use,
nobody else. Not because they think Catholics

129
00:14:08,846 --> 00:14:14,446
are worshipping statues on purpose. They just
read the Bible differently on this one specific

130
00:14:14,446 --> 00:14:21,518
point, in good faith. This is actually where
the split really happened, historically. About

131
00:14:21,518 --> 00:14:27,398
500 years ago, a monk named Martin Luther and
the other early reformers looked at some of

132
00:14:27,398 --> 00:14:33,398
the ways ordinary Catholics were practicing
devotion to saints at the time, and they were

133
00:14:33,398 --> 00:14:39,578
troubled by it. They felt like, in practice,
plenty of everyday believers really were treating

134
00:14:39,578 --> 00:14:45,538
saints as a kind of shortcut around God, whether
or not the church's official teaching allowed

135
00:14:45,538 --> 00:14:51,826
for that. That's a fair criticism of how some
people actually lived out their faith. even

136
00:14:51,826 --> 00:14:57,626
if it's not a fair description of the actual
teaching. Reasonable people can look at the

137
00:14:57,626 --> 00:15:03,106
exact same practice and worry it's being misused,
even while agreeing on what it's technically

138
00:15:03,106 --> 00:15:09,986
supposed to mean. I'm not going to pretend that
disagreement isn't real or that everyone secretly

139
00:15:09,986 --> 00:15:17,186
agrees once it's explained clearly enough. They
don't. Good, sincere Christians land in different

140
00:15:17,186 --> 00:15:22,998
places on this. I think the Catholic reading
makes sense, obviously, or I wouldn't practice

141
00:15:22,998 --> 00:15:28,858
it, but I respect that plenty of people who
love Jesus just as much as I do land somewhere

142
00:15:28,858 --> 00:15:35,138
else. All right, let me bring this back to
the porch the way I do every week, even without

143
00:15:35,138 --> 00:15:43,822
a saint story today. Here's what I keep coming
back to. At the bottom of all of this, the

144
00:15:43,822 --> 00:15:50,742
theology, the honor, the history, the arguments,
praying to saints is really just an act of

145
00:15:50,742 --> 00:15:57,242
trust that love doesn't stop working just because
somebody died. That's it. That's the whole

146
00:15:57,242 --> 00:16:02,542
thing underneath all the explaining. You ask
a saint for prayers, the same reason you do

147
00:16:02,542 --> 00:16:08,410
to ask a friend, because you believe they still
care. and because carrying something together

148
00:16:08,410 --> 00:16:15,430
feels different than carrying it alone. I think
that's actually a beautiful thing to believe,

149
00:16:15,950 --> 00:16:21,350
even if you land somewhere different than I
do on the teachings. And I meant what I said

150
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:27,710
from at the start. I'm not trying to win an
argument today. I just wanted to finally give

151
00:16:27,710 --> 00:16:34,942
my wife and anyone else who's ever asked me
this a real, honest, complete answer. instead

152
00:16:34,942 --> 00:16:41,742
of the two sentence version I gave her the day
this whole show started. I'll say this too,

153
00:16:41,802 --> 00:16:46,602
because I think it matters more than getting
every detail of the doctrine right. However

154
00:16:46,602 --> 00:16:51,722
you land on this, whether you end up agreeing
with the Catholic view or staying right where

155
00:16:51,722 --> 00:16:57,262
you started, I hope you walk away from this
episode actually understanding what Catholics

156
00:16:57,262 --> 00:17:06,422
believe and why. That's really all today was.
One honest explanation from me. to you. If

157
00:17:06,422 --> 00:17:12,082
you believe in Christ and you believe in God,
we are standing on the same ground, even if

158
00:17:12,082 --> 00:17:19,482
we don't agree on every single detail of how
to get there. That's enough for me. It is now

159
00:17:19,482 --> 00:17:25,822
time for the closing prayer. Lord, thank you
for every person who's ever loved us and prayed

160
00:17:25,822 --> 00:17:33,662
for us, whether they are standing next to us
right now or already home with you. Thank you

161
00:17:33,662 --> 00:17:40,082
for a faith big enough to hold real disagreement
without losing real love. For anyone listening

162
00:17:40,082 --> 00:17:46,322
who sees this differently than I do, keep us
both close to you and close enough to each

163
00:17:46,322 --> 00:17:55,062
other to keep talking honestly about it. Amen.
Well, that's today's special episode. If you

164
00:17:55,062 --> 00:17:59,722
have ever wondered about this yourself or you
know somebody who's asked you the same question

165
00:17:59,722 --> 00:18:05,481
my wife asked me, send them this one. And hey,
if you haven't already, go ahead and hit that

166
00:18:05,481 --> 00:18:11,082
follow or subscribe. Also, I'd love to know
what you thought of this one. Was it helpful?

167
00:18:11,242 --> 00:18:16,710
Did it feel different in a good way or a weird
way? And here's the real question. Do you want

168
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:22,230
me to keep doing these special episodes every
once in a while? Or was this a one-time thing?

169
00:18:22,890 --> 00:18:27,750
If there's something about faith or Catholicism
specifically that you have always wondered

170
00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:32,770
about and wanted me to tackle on an episode
like this, shoot me in an email or find me

171
00:18:32,770 --> 00:18:39,010
on X. Both are linked right now in the show
notes of this episode. Everyday Saints will

172
00:18:39,010 --> 00:18:45,570
be back this Thursday in two days with a regular
episode. A new saint like always. I'm John

173
00:18:45,570 --> 00:18:49,582
O'Connor. Thanks for sitting on the porch with
me and I will see you Thursday.